This blog is an electronic record of an active conversation that UIUC BASIC is having on questions about the Christian God. We welcome any and all constructive comments from any belief background.

Friday, July 22, 2011

Sez Who?

This week we read chapter 9, The Knowledge of God. We asked whether our sense of right and wrong is a clue that God is real.

There is a secular explanation for our sense of right and wrong. But that explanation leaves us with a question: why should we feel obligated to do what is right?
Definition. Moral obligation: “a belief that some things ought not to be done regardless of how a person feels about them within herself, regardless of what the rest of her community and culture says, and regardless of whether it is in her self-interest or not.” (page 152, paperback ed.)

Later, when we focused on the Christian view of morality, we found that it was not convincing for unbelievers. “Sez Who?” – the demand for a credible source for assertions of moral obligation – is hard for atheists and for Christians to answer.


Morality Without God
We started by watching a portion of a Ted Talk by Sam Haris, Science Can Answer Moral Questions. Harris sketched a secular view of objective morality:
  • The separation between science and human values is an illusion.
  • Values are facts about the well-being of conscious creatures.
  • Although we may never get complete and full answers to all moral questions, objective answers exist.
  • It is possible to recognize that some cultures do not promote the flourishing of all humans (for example, fundamentalist Islamic cultures that oppress women).
  • Morality may be “open for revision”, but it can still be an accessible and meaningful concept.
  • Values need not be absolute in order to be useful. There can be many ways to achieve human flourishing.
Summary: objective morality is accessible without God.


Free Floating Morality
Harris’ presentation did not seem especially “scientific” to one participant. Harris did not say why we ought to make the “well-being of conscious creatures” our goal.
Discussion:
Perhaps morality is that which helps everyone flourish – but why should we be moral?
It works to benefit us. Also, it makes us feel good.
(This prompted the question “where does that pleasure come from?” See the next section for that discussion.)

Then if there are two ways of being selfish – one helpful, one harmful – why is one way right, and one way wrong?
But doesn’t our society does find harming other acceptable in some situations? For example, in war and for capital punishment.
Sam Harris’ overall goal, maximizing the well-being of conscious creatures, was a value that he took for granted without giving a reason. A solid foundation for moral obligation was missing.
This is Keller’s argument: “if there is no God, then there is no way to say any one action is “moral” and another “immoral” but only “I like this.”” (page 159, paperback ed.)

Someone suggested that if our existence ends when we die, there is no basis for moral obligation. Our conscious existence would be so brief, compared to eternity, that our choices would be meaningless.
This was objectionable – “sad” – to another participant. We can still enjoy and value life (even if the reason we enjoy life is that we’re biologically programmed to do so). People who do not believe in God still have values.
But what is the basis of those values? When you consider do moral questions, do you think in terms of obligation?
I think of values in terms of “want,” not “should.”
Is morality always in our self-interest?
(There was some skepticism in the group that the right action would also be the most utilitarian one:
Hypothetical: if a bum is a drain on society, isn’t it for the “greater good” to kill him?
Response: perhaps he is a drain on society, but having members with such low empathy that they would be willing to kill the bum is a much greater negative for society as a whole.)



Where did Morality come from?
Tim Keller says that our sense of morality cannot be learned from observing nature, because nature is violent. It is natural for the strong to prey upon the weak. Yet we have a deep conviction that humans should protect the weak.
Objection: nature isn’t “all about violence.” Nature rewards efficiency, not violence. This is why species tend not to be indiscriminately violent, especially towards their own kind. It’s a waste of resources.

And we can explain human altruism as an efficient way for a species to behave. The value that we put on others’ happiness has cultural sources (via memes) and biological sources (we’re ‘hardwired’ for empathy). There are different types of altruism:
  • Kin selection. Helping those who share your genes.
  • Direct reciprocity. Helping someone who will help you in the future.
  • Indirect reciprocity. Helping someone who may not help you in the future – someone else will help you in the future.
  • Group selection. This is the most controversial type. Scholars are studying and debating it. Keller tried to discredit sociobiology by focusing on this.
Mathematical models and simulations support the idea that these types of altruism could evolve. (Hamilton’s theory.)
I don’t always think of helping others as a way to get a payback (either from others, or from God). I just want to help the other person.
But you don’t have to think through it consciously in order for it to “work.” Your altruistic impulses could come from biological and cultural factors, even if you didn’t realize it.

Summary: a secular viewpoint can explain how morality developed in humans. But it can’t prove that moral obligation exists.


Morality With God

We agreed that religions give people powerful reasons to be altruistic. If religion is an illusion, it at least can be a “useful illusion.” However, we want to know whether its claims are true.

If God does exist, then we can back up our belief in moral obligation. We can say that we are duty-bound to value others because God told us to do so. In this way, the religious view avoids the “free floating morality” problem of the secularists.
But whose religion? Some religions give bad answers to moral questions. In fact, we can find disturbing passages in the Christian scriptures.
Those passages need to be taken in their cultural context.
How do you pick and choose what teachings you follow and which ones you explain away?
Christians can’t pick and choose based on what they like. They do have to accept some unappealing statements in the Bible.
But Christians do not follow all of the commands found in the Old Testament. Isn’t it a contradiction that you aren’t following every word in the Bible?
Christ brought a new covenant. Therefore, Christians are not obligated to follow ceremonial law, or to offer sacrifices, and so on. Christ told us that (see Matthew 15). We’re saved by grace, not by our works – therefore, our motivation for obedience to God and for kindness to others is love, not a payback.
This appeal to “love” does not impress non-believers. It sounds like a fall-back line, and it looks inconsistent with Christians’ stance on social issues – homosexuality being a notable example.
The Christian response was to say that loving others is not the same as approving of their behavior.

Summary: Christians can justify absolute moral claims. However, establishing the link between their beliefs and God’s will is difficult.


NEXT WEEK: Chapter 13, “The Reality of the Resurrection.” Notice that we are skipping ahead because we have only one week left.

Sunday, July 17, 2011

Thursday, July 14, 2011

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

"....There is no meaning for life, and [thus] life has no meaning." -Somerset Maugham

Meaning without God: life goes on and there is no purpose other than what we assign to life; life keeps going on and we are in the bridge between the past and the future.  There is only a subjective meaning to life.

Meaning with God: we were created with a purpose- to glorify God, we are to be obedient and organize our life around Him and enjoy Him.
     Q1. Can non-Christians glorify God?
     A1. Their actions can glorify Him, but not they themselves.  All moral actions are connected to God.

     Q2. Isn't glorification and worship of an omnipotent God pointless?  God knows everything and everything has already been known.
     A2. We are to enjoy him.

Arguments for the existence of God:

1) The Mysterious Bang 
There was no beginning point to the universe, according to some modern scientific thought; no singularity moment.  If there was no "big bang" and everything wraps around, then is there any place for a God to start the world?

2) The Cosmic Welcome Mat
The universe was tailored to life on Earth, but we can only say that now as humans looking back.  There might have been many options for life and many attempts at life. We are only a small part of the universe and if the universe is here for us, why are we only taking up a small part of it?  If God is "non-efficient", is He intentionally so?

It might be an unlikely scenario that the universe evolved, but what about the scenario that an unseen God created us?  Also, maybe there are other possibilities for life and we just happen to fall into one of those possibilities.  If we were not here, then we wouldn't know what conditions life could not have occurred in; since we are here to observe, then we are allowed to notice how unique our situation is.
Swarm theory: lots of organisms together try to solve the same problem and they have a higher probability of reaching the solution than if one tried alone, even if they do not try together.

Given the above, at the beginning of our universe, lots of systems could have tried to make a livable universe and we were the only one that made it.

3) The Regularity of Nature
Faith: part of your reality, not in the realm of science, non-testable
Assumption: used to make up science, (science being the scientific process)

Science tests laws, faith lies only in the scientific method.  Religion has certain questions that you are not allowed to ask.  And we only have the ability to observe natural occurrences, not the supernatural.

4) The Clue of Beauty
Beauty is a side-effect of something else that evolved, and is not as simple as the "evolutionary" argument presented by Keller.  We do not want to reduce beauty to the physical; we want to create a personal experience of it.

Love:
1) God causes who we love
     Q1) Can God cause a Christian to love a non-Christian?
2) Physically, we love because of a purely physical desire.

Desire:
1) If we have a desire that nothing in this world can satisfy then that must mean that it is from God.  There are categories of desire that can only be satisfied by the divine.
     Q1) What if we have the desire to fly or go back in time?

Belief in God is innate, hard-wired in us.  For over 200,000 years we have had a spiritual aspect to our existence.  For the last 300 years, people have started to believe that there might not be a God (which began after natural selection slowed, modern medicine evolved and we began to use science over witchcraft).


Evolution:
Evolution comes from what we have observed in the natural world; yet we evolved to believe in a God.  However, science is objective.  If we don't use science and rely on religion how can we prove anything?  Science is testable and we trust science based on evidence not personal belief.  Evolution is not innate, it is tested by experiments.  Evolution is not a belief, it is a principle developed to explain the natural world.  Inquisitive nature and reason have helped us to survive.  Science is a useful meme. 

Creation:

Can we trust our subjective self and our opinions on the world?  How can we know anything?   Logic is limited if it is a product of evolution.  If we were born to believe in God, could we reflect a higher being?



Q) Did belief in a God prolong our survival?  We seem to be pretty good at killing ourselves.



5) The Clue-Killer
If you do not believe in a God, can you experience beauty and love?  Is explaining the world in purely physical terms bad?  If love is purely a physical experience does it lessen or cheapen it?

"If there is no God, we should not trust our cognitive faculties at all."  Keller, pg 145

1) Ex. When we grow up and find out that there is no Santa, do we then discount everything our parents told us?
2) Can we trust our senses?  Science is based on objective processes but how do we know those processes are accurate?  Can we trust our senses?  If we are testing one of our cognitive faculties, do we need to discount them all? 

Thursday, July 7, 2011

For the Bible tells me so

Bible:
-if it is historically accurate, does it prove the miracles?  (historical fiction argument)
-every major religion has religious texts
-what about the inconsistencies?
     i.e. Luke not being historically accurate, John 8 being added much later,
-what is allegory and what is truth?
-if the Bible says to do something wrong does it make it ok?
     i.e. if the Ten Commandments were changed to make stealing ok, or the Biblical acceptance of slavery, rape, genocide, etc.

Back to science:
-is Carbon dating and the like really reliable?
-science developed from religious minds originally
-do you have to believe in a 6,000 year old Earth to be a Christian?
-is human disapproval of stealing, murder, etc. innate or spiritual?
-if you are not religious, there are still questions to be asked of this world, there exists a deep curiosity
-every natural occurrence has a natural cause
-how is energy created or destroyed??

Q. If you see a biological process that can be explained through natural causes, why do you need to add God on top of it?
A. In faith, you attribute everything to God.

From book (paraphrased from pg. 126): God cannot be found by testing or in a lab.
Q1. How can you then "prove" God?  Or even say that there is one religion?
Q2. Why does God hide?
Outside point: Some atheists have tried to "find" God and have failed, saying there is not enough proof; to which the believer will say they did not try hard enough.  Yet, the atheist will say that the Christians stop short of proof and feel satisfied with lack of evidences.

Q. Would it change your Christianity if the Bible was disproved?  Is their spirituality outside of the Bible?
A. Christianity is not based on Biblical accuracy alone, but on a supernatural calling.  Faith is subjective, experienced and based on a trust.

Believe vs accept: believe in a God, accept gravity and evolution.  If something comes along that explains the natural world better than those natural processes we now accept, we are quick to accept it.  However, a belief is not easily overruled by facts or alternative explanations.
           -if you say you know 100% that there is or is not a God than you have cut yourself off from
            additional hypotheses and have closed your mind


NEXT WEEK: Chapter 8